Most of what I was saying was just my personal thoughts on the matter. I was always a very motivated student; I love learning and I loved school. If I was didn't feel like doing an assignment I found some way to get value out of it or figure out why I was learning it. Having to instill that is a puzzle that I don't know how to solve.

My favorite experiences in science class was when the teacher gave us a problem, the tools to solve it, and force us to come up with the answer. We had to be wrong, find out why, and try again. If we were right, we had to explain why. There's a progression of puzzlement, frustration, excitement, and understanding that one has to go through. That's a lot closer to what "science" is and it's a shame not all students get to experience that.

Me too. I find it pretty difficult to empathize with the kids who don't choose to learn on their own, which surely clouds my judgment on education as a whole.

Oh, and I didn't mean to imply that the scientific isn't real or helpful, it's just misapplied in the classroom nearly every time I see it.